Chapel is sold... watch what happens next
Andy Rose accepted the terms in the sale of the Chapel with the Town. I suspect, the warning about the possible contamination of the land where the gas station was, brought forward by Mike Hugo, was not enough to stop the sale. Mr. Rose plans to move it to where the old gas station was next to the pizza shop and take down the office building. The move of the Chapel will allow the Town to do it's restructuring of the intersection (making it wider) and allow enough space to put in a new bigger CVS store on the corner. The next step will be for the planning board to approve the use of the land (former gas station)
At the last Council meeting, they voted 7 to 2 to ask the city not to sign the agreement until the Mayor weighs in. Richardson and Sisitsky voted against the idea.
With the pending approval of B3, mixed use, zoning regs, along Water street would be a building with retail space and 49 apartments above. Behind that would be a 4 story building with 117 apartments.
There are no real guarantees in this project. Mr. Rose is still tied into a master lease making even the empty plaza a revenue stream. He has already indicated he (Rose) would sell of f the development rights to an outside developer. I've not talked with anyone who thinks 166 apartments are a good thing for our community.
I'm not sure what can be done now to rein in the size of the project. It all boils down to the Council who will have to approve the zoning changes. And if they don't, I believe Rose will have to go to the ZBA for an variance.
If any of our readers think this is good for Nobscot... post your thoughts
From the MWDN..
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posted by Jim Pillsbury @ 11:28 AM
23 Comments
23 Comments:
I can not imagine that anyone things that many apartments at the location is a reasonable option. I fear that we have been sucked in to the mindset that "this is better than what is there now" so they are going with it. But the truth is this is not better, and will mean more demands on our schools, our police, our fire, our DPW and our water system. Will the taxes paid for this new development cover those additional costs? Who knows, but I do wonder why when discussing pot shops we require they pay a fee to the city to cover the additional costs to police, but when we build a new development like this we don't ask them to cover the additional burden on anything at all, and they impact so much more than the police budget. Our schools are not in good shape. Fuller is not the only one that needs work or replacing. Any development that potentially adds students to our schools should be very carefully vetted and we as taxpayers should know what the potential increase in costs to all city department will be. We worry about traffic, and that is a legitimate concern, but what about all these other things?
Has the Mayor weighed in on this at all or is she doing what she usually does, not commenting so no one can disagree with her position since she never takes a position?
I am confused. Who was the chapel sold to exactly, and once it gets moved to the new location who is responsible for the upkeep and maintenance of that building?
The Chapel was sold to (in a RFP) Andy Rose, the owner of the plaza. His proposal won over Rick's because Rose had the parking requirement for the zoning approval, Rick's plan did not. At the last Nobsoct Neighbors meeting, I heard that Rose will turn over the church to Rick McKinna after it's moved. Rick and his partner have great ideas for the use of that church.
The Mayor has not publicly said anything about it, but the COO seems to indicate the administration wants this to go forward.
Good points on the other things.. like schools, etc. Perhaps a 3% host agreement would help defray some added expenses the Town will have once this gets occupied.
So this is a plan to go around the issue and give the church to the guy who wanted it to start with but who did not meet the city's parking requirments? So what happens when he gets this building? Does he get to just ignore the parking requirements others have to abide by?
Rose has the space for parking on the gas station location. Rick did not as he was going to put it somewhere else.
Interesting situation here. Seems that there was some secret committee vetting info on this process. Were any regular old residents of the area part of that secret committee? Do the findings of that committee agree with what we hear at the public hearings? I thought I heard no one wanted all these apartments. I saw you at these meetings Jim, did I miss something somewhere?
So they are moving an abandoned building to a new site with parking. And then what happens with the building? Is it still a church and if so who runs it? Does it pay taxes? Or if it is something else, what happens if that something else does not come to fruition? I suspect the building needs significant work to be used for anything. Who puts up the money for that work and if they run out of money will this just become another urban blight sight?
i have heard there is need for a new fire station as the trucks don't fit in the existing one. that gas station lot seems like a good place to put a new station so why are we giving that land away to someone to try and make it work when maybe we can put a new fire station in that lot
It was news to me as well... I went back to Gov TV on demand last year when the Council first came together and cannot find the part when this committee was formed. But I can safely say, it was made up of people who wanted the plaza developed. But as we heard, the results of the survey which were under 500 I believe, have driven the coarse of this project. And some of the irony is that the very same people, in charge for the past 10 years, couldn't get a deal done that may have been smaller in scope with Rose, until now, when the place will be much larger. I agree.. no one expressed any nice thoughts for more apartments at the meeting, but notice.. it wasn't packed like past meetings. Maybe residents have just given up.
No doubt, Pam and Charlie are squarely behind the deal with Rose. I even heard Charlie say how ugly and dingy the CVS is.
Rose has committed 500,000 for the move. My guess it's going to be taken apart in smaller pieces. All it is is a large open frame building over 100 years old.
If the church thing goes sideways... I don't believe (I don't have inside info) that the Town has any claw back terms.
IF Rose moves the Church and turns it over to Rick and company to run it like a business, then the building will go back on the tax rolls.
We're already replacing t he Saxonville Station, I had not heard we were thinking of replacing Nobscot... yet. And there's plenty of space to enlarge the station if needed imo.
That piece of land already belongs to Rose.
I worry that this is about some inside secret dealings. We all know the selectmen were prone to that. Look at how they dealt with Doug Stefan's issues,had him sit at there table until someone called them on it. One of the reason for going to a city was for more tranparancy but it does not appear that is working.
I would agree.. look at the turnaround some councilman made when they pushed for Doug to be able to grow cannabis to save the farm. Now it's ok...but before it was not.
It's transparently clear that they, the administration and council may not care what any one thinks about anything, until later this year when we have to vote them in or out.
This project will forever change our hood and I don't know what if anything any of us can do but stand on the sidelines and watch our run down plaza turn into an urban walk able..center.
Jim you have never stood on the sidelines in your entire life. Why start now? I hope you will continue to be a force in our community, via this blog, your work with the LWV like your testimony last week on the immigrant welcoming proposal, and your advocacy for the things you believe in. Although I do not agree with all your positions I do admire your tenacity, your knowledge, and your willingness to step into the fray. Keep up the good work.
I saw on a facebook page George King said the P&S can not have any language not included in the RFP. If the gas station lot is contaminated what does the mean for Shapiro opening his little trading post on that spot? Who would be the part responsible for the clean up?
Contaminated land? Aren't we just looking for a lawsuit if we allow a building to go there without making sure it is safe land?
this is a great big cluster f***. A lot of this seems to have happened behind closed doors and how can the mayor not weigh in on something like this that has been an issue for years and years and could continue to be an issue even with this agreement?
I would assume that Rose would have to remediate the land first before building on it. But the last report that Hugo presented was back in 1993. They took down the gas station long after that and I would have thought that the land had to be cleaned up then. But as Ms. Vassar points out, the limit's of toxins in the ground has changed and perhaps soil samples will show that or not.
The Mayor lets her administrators do the talking.
As you know, the council has asked the Mayor to come to a meeting and discuss the sale of the church and perhaps the wide view of the plaza development. The source asked for a comment and got a note back saying she would come, but the decision has already been made by her review team. I'm not sure what the reason is she wants questions in writing ahead of time.
So the council has no say over the church sale... but does have a say in the re-zoning by-law question.
And she has requested her time to be after public speak.
Think about it Jim. Why does she want the questions ahead of time? Maybe so they don't sandbag her? Look at how some councilors have treated her and the staff at other council meetings. Plus some of the councilors used to be selectman who were given the power to solve the chapel problem for years now and did NOTHING.
Or should she bring in the entire staff of every related department to answer any question they might want to ask - and pay for that in comp time?
The mayor has to prove that we are protected well legally from Rose pulling a fast one on us. But make no mistake it will be a political shitshow as well.
Why didn't the old BOS do anything about this if they had the power?
These are the questions posed by the Council to the Mayor to answer next week at the regular council meeting. The Mayor has requested all questions be submitted before this Friday.
1) Please discuss the history of the chapel and its historic significance to the
neighborhood and why it is important to preserve the building for the neighborhood. (District 2 City Councilor Pam Richardson)
2) Please describe the improvements to the Edgell/Edmunds /Water St. Intersection and the land that the chapel currently is on and how the intersection improvement plan is affected by the current location of the Chapel. (Richardson)
3) How long ago did the Star Market vacate the Nobscot Plaza and the first time (if this information is available) that Mr. Rose reached out to the town expressing an interest in working with the town to develop the property? (Richardson)
4) Please provide a brief summary (if this information is available) of the amount of work the Town/Economic Development Dept. has done with members of the Nobscot neighborhood to try and reach consensus regarding the future of Nobscot Plaza. (Richardson)
5) If this information is available, please share what we know about the lease with CVS currently and the prospect of what potentially could happen with the property if CVS vacates the Plaza (as the last tenant of the property) and to follow that, what Shaw’s Supermarkets (current lessee) could do with the property if there are no longer tenants. (Richardson)
6) The special act from 2013 that was referenced in your letter to the Council provides the final approval authority to the Board of Selectmen. As you are aware, after the change in the charter some duties of the Board of Selectmen have vested in the Council and other in the Mayor. This special act is not among a long list of acts specifically documented in the Charter as an act that continues. Has there been an advisory opinion sought from the Inspector General that concurs with the apparent local interpretation that the special act is still valid in a city and the Mayor specifically assumes the power of the Board of Selectmen in this instance? (City Councilor George King)
7) What is your vision, role, plan, and efforts on the matters relative to Nobscot? (District 4 City Councilor Mike Cannon)
8) What is your long-term vision for a successful Nobscot Plaza? Is Mr. Rose’s latest plan, which calls for, among other things, a 4 story apartment building, consistent with that vision? (District 3 City Councilor Adam Steiner)
9) Would you explain your strategy of the Nobscot Chapel decision as it fits into your overall redevelopment strategy for Nobscot Plaza and the Nobscot area? (District 5 City Councilor Denis Giombetti)
the rest of the questions:
10) Why after Mr. Robert, Mr. Halpin and other officials agreed that the only negotiating lever that the people of Framingham had regarding the Nobscot plaza was the Chapel and that it was decided not to do an additional RFP until a satisfactory solution for the blighted shopping center was approved was our only piece of negotiating leverage
given away? ( City Councilor Cheryl Tully Stoll)
a. What was the process surrounding the decision?
b. What was the justification for the decision?
c. Who made this decision?
d. And how is this decision in the best interest of the people of Nobscot and the rest of Framingham?
11) What were the criteria and rationale by which the decision to either award or reject Nobscot bids? (Giombetti)
12) Given the high value the property offers to the owner of the Nobscot Shopping Center it was likely he would be a bidder. Why did the administration choose to bid this parcel at this time before the issue of the shopping center’s future was determined? (King)
13) Considering the cost of moving the chapel and the $50,000 purchase price, the city is selling the property substantially under its appraised value which is the mid $300 thousand range. Why is the City willing to accept such a low price? (King)
14) What are next steps in the Nobscot Chapel award and what assurances does the neighbors have that redevelopment of the plaza will be put forward by the owner? (Giombetti)
15) What guarantees do we now have that Mr. Rose will come forward with anything remotely suitable for the Plaza since he finally has what he has wanted all along? (Tully Stoll)
16) What is to stop Mr. Rose from building a CVS on the corner and leaving the rest of the plaza as is? (Steiner)
17) Why after Mr. Rose changed a plan that was close to approval by the neighbors and then pulled out from under them by Mr. Rose with a plan for four story buildings closely abutting a residential neighborhood did the City not cancel the RFP? (Tully Stoll)
18) Is there a provision ensuring that the historic chapel will be sited on the former gas station property as was described in the RFP? What assurances do we have that there is no environmental contamination on this property? (Steiner)
19) Why has the City Council and the public been kept in the dark regarding the Nobscot Task Force? (Tully Stoll)
20) Why when this decision was in the process of being made, did you not once hold office hours in Nobscot? (Tully Stoll)
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